Mapping question

[ivor]

i agree you should be able to adjust things as you see fit but you need to be able to see both sides of the coin i've had mine mapped by gt-art and nothings locked and he keeps a copy of the map for future use if i go back for more work.

the password screen is a load of letters and numbers a bit like the matrix screen except the password usually stick out like the dogs danglys

[Checkpoint]

To be perfectly honest you could probably count the number of people in the UK that actually know what they are doing with mapping ECU's on your fingers, therefore those of them that choose to protect their knowledge should be entitled to.
All those other "tuners" that merely tweak settings on a dyno, give you another 15bhp and expect praise (what, for leaning your mixture off and bringing it closer to det) could learn a lot from experienced mappers, especially in setting up blank ECU's.
If you have an ECU that you want mapped by an expert you can't expect them to let you see what they have done (you wouldn't ask microsoft how they wrote windows just because you bought it) therefore if you have an ECU that you want to access the settings you would have to ask the question before you get them to map it.
Locking the Power FC is a bit futile due to the availability of the software.
The other thing is, what if people change the settings, blow their engine then change them back again??

[Andy M GTS]

Originally Posted by Checkpoint

The other thing is, what if people change the settings, blow their engine then change them back again??

A very valid point and a total minefield of a subject

[vizibledog]

Originally Posted by Checkpoint

To be perfectly honest you could probably count the number of people in the UK that actually know what they are doing with mapping ECU's on your fingers, therefore those of them that choose to protect their knowledge should be entitled to.
All those other "tuners" that merely tweak settings on a dyno, give you another 15bhp and expect praise (what, for leaning your mixture off and bringing it closer to det) could learn a lot from experienced mappers, especially in setting up blank ECU's.
If you have an ECU that you want mapped by an expert you can't expect them to let you see what they have done (you wouldn't ask microsoft how they wrote windows just because you bought it) therefore if you have an ECU that you want to access the settings you would have to ask the question before you get them to map it.
Locking the Power FC is a bit futile due to the availability of the software.
The other thing is, what if people change the settings, blow their engine then change them back again??

When you map my car can you please give me access to the rev limit?

[Checkpoint]

Originally Posted by vizibledog

When you map my car can you please give me access to the rev limit?

In exchange for any warranty on our work?

[Trev]

Locking an ecu is the equivalent of making it a door stop IMHO.

Locking it fully means unless your find a tuner that can by-pass it, your stuck with a £600+ door stop - unless you take it back to the same tuner.

I understand why some tuners don't want their maps "downloaded" and copyed though - this is quite a common practice and is used by some tuners.

[Andy Kain]

Some very interesting points here and I agree with both of them to be honest.

I can see that a reputable tuner wants to maintain a certain amount of control over their work and thus protect the engine of the car, but I can also need to access certain areas of the map such as the launch control as I may not want it always set at 3500, if you know what I mean.

When I set out to have the car mapped I had no idea that it would be locked and when I got it home I thought there was something wrong with it, until I started asking around and found that some lock it and some don't. I now have a power FC pro that I cannot access and a hand controller that looks all pretty and stuff lit up on the dashboard, but serves no purpose.
After spending £650 on the FC Pro, £411 on the map and due to pay an additional £188 to finish it off as my clutch wasnt up to the job of fully mapping as it was slipping, I am bemused to say the least.

Interesting thread though.

[Checkpoint]

Originally Posted by Trev

Locking an ecu is the equivalent of making it a door stop IMHO.

Locking it fully means unless your find a tuner that can by-pass it, your stuck with a £600+ door stop - unless you take it back to the same tuner.

I understand why some tuners don't want their maps "downloaded" and copyed though - this is quite a common practice and is used by some tuners.

I know what you mean. If a tuner locks an ecu they should always be prepared to unlock it for a customer to go elsewhere, albeit with a base map, after all it is the customers ecu.

Motec for example will unlock a locked Motec ecu for a customer BUT they WILL wipe it clean (no map at all) so the next tuner can't even start the car let alone see what was in it previously.

[Checkpoint]

Originally Posted by Andy Kain

Some very interesting points here and I agree with both of them to be honest.

I can see that a reputable tuner wants to maintain a certain amount of control over their work and thus protect the engine of the car, but I can also need to access certain areas of the map such as the launch control as I may not want it always set at 3500, if you know what I mean.

When I set out to have the car mapped I had no idea that it would be locked and when I got it home I thought there was something wrong with it, until I started asking around and found that some lock it and some don't. I now have a power FC pro that I cannot access and a hand controller that looks all pretty and stuff lit up on the dashboard, but serves no purpose.
After spending £650 on the FC Pro, £411 on the map and due to pay an additional £188 to finish it off as my clutch wasnt up to the job of fully mapping as it was slipping, I am bemused to say the least.

Interesting thread though.

Ask them to unlock everything except the ignition and fuel maps.

[Bubble]

Originally Posted by Abbeymotorsport

when you lock a Power Fc you can leave certain parts of the maps open as to speak.

We used to leave everything open other than the fuel/ignition maps. So you can tweak rev limits etc etc

Mine was left like that after it was mapped. I could also adjust the start up and warm up enrichment, as well as all the rev limits.

I was also able to trim the ignition timing and take a couple of degrees out of the basic timing if the det went a bit high on a very hot day.

When you go back to get the map finished Andy, ask them to leave everything bar the fuel and ignition maps unlocked

[James]

Mine is unlocked on the RX7 but I only ever play with rev limits, mainly for MOT's. RX7s need quite a low idle for the MOT. It failed its first on idle after we got it but I had a quick look at the PFC and figured out how to adjust it. They agreed to re-test the idle so it saved me re-booking. So, in this instance I'm glad it was unlocked.
A lot of MOT places we have taken it to since are not very clued up on the rotary engines and associated airpumps. Too many revs on a fast idle and the airpump cuts out meaning even higher emissions, bit off topic

[James]

Originally Posted by Bubble

Mine was left like that after it was mapped. I could also adjust the start up and warm up enrichment, as well as all the rev limits.

I was also able to trim the ignition timing and take a couple of degrees out of the basic timing if the det went a bit high on a very hot day.

When you go back to get the map finished Andy, ask them to leave everything bar the fuel and ignition maps unlocked

I think this is something I need to look at. When starting from hot it hunts for a few seconds, up and down to 3k. Trouble is the car is quite loud.

It did the same before the rebuild but was sorted by disconnecting the second idle control valve the UK cars have.

Now its had the rebuild its doing it again and I've been told it will be the power fc causing it.

In this case it may have been better if the thing was locked to stop me breaking anything in the future.

[Richf]

Originally Posted by Checkpoint

In exchange for any warranty on our work?

Do all tuners offer warranties , i have not heard of one before???

[Checkpoint]

Originally Posted by James

I think this is something I need to look at. When starting from hot it hunts for a few seconds, up and down to 3k. Trouble is the car is quite loud.

It did the same before the rebuild but was sorted by disconnecting the second idle control valve the UK cars have.

Now its had the rebuild its doing it again and I've been told it will be the power fc causing it.

In this case it may have been better if the thing was locked to stop me breaking anything in the future.

This is the other misconception..... when a car with a reprogrammable ecu has a running fault it's always the ecu or the "map" that the finger is pointed at. When an ecu is set up/mapped PROPERLY you won't have any emission or running faults, and ecu settings can't change theirselves so the fault would be elsewhere (and... sorry ... but an RX7 must be the worst engine in the world ever to try and burn fuel efficiently... and that's when it is new, let alone been round the block a few times, we had 3 in last week 1 is still with us, and they were all suffering from extreme emissions, they won't pass without the air pump - but people take them off?? - and struggle to run smoothly when at lambda 1).
Often incorrect modifications can can cause emissions to be high, like fitting injectors that are too big or unnecessarily enlarging the intake size, both of these cause poor fuel atomisation and combustion at idle.

[Checkpoint]

Originally Posted by Richf

Do all tuners offer warranties , i have not heard of one before???

I don't have a problem warranting our work, i.e. if something fails due to us not doing it properly or to the right standards. But if it is parts failure that is on a modified engine then - you take your chances -
We warranty ALL standard cars parts and labour for 1 year.